Georgia: “We Have Until March”

Anthony Borden in Georgia

IWPR Executive Director

Thursday, 19 December, 2024

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Giorgi Gakharia, a former prime minister under the Georgian Dream (GD) in 2019-21, now heads the opposition, For Georgia party. He spoke to IWPR Executive Director Anthony Borden on December 14, as the ruling GD elected a new president and the prospect of rival pro- and anti-government gatherings risked becoming a flashpoint, subsequently diffused. The interview has been edited for length and clarity.

IWPR: On a dramatic day, there is a risk of provocation. How do you explain this?

Giorgi Gakharia: Georgian Dream relies on the radicalisation of the street. Any violence from protesters will be the huge gift to them. But you see that the protest is fully peaceful. This new style of behaviour of GD – violence on the streets – comes from not only from law enforcement but also organised crime. It is something terrible, because nobody knows who the people behind the masks are.

After more than two weeks of demonstrations, where are we?

Nobody believes this de facto government can gain domestic or international legitimacy. This means isolation for the country. [Bidzina] Ivanishvili [the patron and head of the party] thinks things will calm down after the new year, but I don’t think so. The next two to three months will be critical.

What are the real intentions of GD and its patron?

They are aiming to push out Europeans and Americans to maintain a grey zone in the region, serving illegal business interests between Russia, Iran, and China, and making huge profits. With the Ukraine war, Russia needs ways to avoid sanctions and continue illicit trade, and the South Caucasus is an ideal location for this.

This is the foundation of their cooperation, and why Russia protects the de facto Georgian government. Russia aims to disconnect us from Eastern Europe.

Could Georgia be used as a pawn in a peace deal over Ukraine?

It seems the Trump administration has already started working on a Ukraine peace deal, with Georgia potentially being sidelined, left with autocracies like Russia, China and Iran.

People need to remember that Russia’s aggression started with the 2008 war [over Georgia’s breakaway regions]. The lack of a proper response from NATO and Western countries led to the 2014 Ukraine crisis. If a peace deal over Ukraine is discussed, Georgia must be part of it. Without that, it would be a betrayal of this country.

Is Russia directly present in Georgia today?

Four years ago, no. Because of our cooperation with NATO and the US, the security dimension was so deep, it was impossible. Only months ago, the process of Europe integration was at least formally in place. Now we have this statement [suspending the accession process], and their presence in this country is real and visible. Russia is here.

In what ways, can you describe it?

You can simply check the amount of Russian money in Georgian banks. It’s billions. How can you imagine that Russia is parking its illegal money in the country without any control and without any access to the relevant institutions of this country? Look at the number of businesses representing Russia’s interests in all spheres of the economy, starting from real estate, construction, trade, and so forth. This economic interest needs security coverage, and who will deliver this?

Is there political cooperation?

Imagine how is it that within half an hour maximum, Russia is reacting on the highest political level to every step of the Georgian government, in making direct statements. This coordination is very visible, just by looking at Georgia’s media, I mean the propaganda TV stations such as Imedi and the others.

Before the elections, Ivanishvili’s main message was that he needed a constitutional majority to revise Article 78 of the Constitution, which commits Georgia to a Euro-Atlantic path. GD argued that only a constitutional majority could protect the country.

After the election, when GD didn’t achieve that majority, Russian officials stated that the opposition would open a second front against Russia from Georgia. Russia also called for demilitarizing the occupation line – it’s a way Russia claims the opposition started the 2008 war, with western provocation. Russia then suggested a peace agreement with Abkhazian civil society. This is a very coordinated effort.

So, from the Russian perspective, conflict over Europe is a strategic advantage?

We start war against you, but we were protecting ourselves. It’s nonsense. Occupying another country somehow means protecting Russia, even though nobody was targeting them in the first place. They are building everything around Ivanishvili’s narrative that someone asked him to open a new line of war against Russia.

Of course, this dispute with Europe is a fake narrative and propaganda for Russia to maintain power. Europe is the most pluralistic union worldwide, and Russia has always crushed our cultural identity, for centuries. Unity with Europe is the only way this country can build its statehood based on its cultural identities, so I don’t believe this propaganda will take hold here. This protest shows that.

Why is Ivanishvili willing to put the entire population through this?

His motivation is unclear, but it seems very emotional. He is very concerned about his security and thinks that nobody can guarantee this – not the US, Europe or Russia. Only by staying in power can he secure himself. He’s willing to pay any price for that. He’s surrounding himself with state institutions, police forces, criminal groups and resources for protection.

Were the recent parliamentary elections legitimate?

After the elections, it was clear the scale of manipulation was massive. No one denies GD has supporters – around 25-30 per cent. The issue is how they claim 54 per cent. In a small country like Georgia, people know who their neighbours vote for. If GD claimed 40 or even 44 per cent, most Georgians would accept that. But manipulating results by 10 per cent raises serious doubts.

So, the next day, there were questions about the parliament’s legitimacy, and calls for an investigation to determine whether the manipulation affected the results. The US and European countries offered to launch an international investigation.

However, the government’s actions shifted the focus entirely. Within one week the GD made such mistakes that now nobody talks about the elections. Everyone is talking about the violence and the arrests, about their decision to stop the country’s European future and other illegal steps by the party. The first session of parliament had no opposition parties, so after that, all the decisions are made by one party. Even the president is elected only by the GD. So now there is much more ground for questioning the legitimacy of this parliament and the government than the day after the elections.

We need new elections because this government is pro-Russian and not pro-European. Even for GD voters, what were the party’s main promises? Peace and Europe. And what is this peace? Violence on Rustaveli Avenue. And in one week they killed the country’s European perspective.

Even if new elections were held, there is no guarantee the opposition would win.

The key is ensuring free and fair elections. For that, we need a new administration across six or seven key institutions, including the Central Electoral Commission, the State Security Service, the public defender, personal data inspectorate and the public broadcaster, all of which are controlled by GD. There must be political consensus over these institutions.

This moment is critical because of the limited window to join EU accession talks alongside Ukraine and Moldova. Missing this opportunity would be a historic loss. Everything else means nothing. The unity of the opposition, or lack thereof, is secondary. What matters is using this chance to move closer to Europe.

What is the plan to turn demonstrations into actual change?

The plan is simple but requires coordination between domestic and international processes.

First, we must continue demonstrations on Rustaveli Avenue  and other locations in Tbilisi and at the same time five, six other big cities around the country – Batumi, Zugdidi, Gori – to keep pressure on the government and show the international community that Georgian citizens do not give legitimacy to this de facto government.

Second, Brussels, EU member states and the US must maintain a policy of non-recognition of this government, as they have shown in recent statements, addressing GD as a political party.

Third, personal financial sanctions should be imposed on 10 to 15 individuals in the inner circle to increase pressure on Ivanishvili.

Through these combined efforts, we aim to bring the government to the table to discuss a political solution, with the only outcome being a new election date.

We need progress within the next two months, as preparations for the municipal elections next October will influence international legitimacy. There are many practical and technical issues, so this needs six or seven months to prepare properly.

If not, government propaganda will again use the election to claim legitimacy. But if pressure continues, especially after sanctions, Ivanishvili will be forced to discuss a solution. We have until March.

You were in government in June 2019, and ordered the clearing of demonstrators then, seriously injuring two. How do you account for this?

Nowadays the demonstrations are peaceful. On the June 20, they were physically attacking the parliament building, and it was my obligation as minister of internal affairs to protect the institution.

Yes, some cases were investigated, and these led to real charges.

But now, it’s completely different. There are no arrests of security forces. More than 400 demonstrators are illegally imprisoned. This is a campaign of systematic violence against citizens.

Also at that time, our cooperation with Europe and with NATO was intensive. So, yes, we may have made mistakes. But no one questioned the country’s European and Atlantic future. This is the difference.

And you left the party?

It started right after the 2020 elections, and I resigned in early 2021. It seemed that, under some influence, Ivanishvili decided he had to stay in power at any price. So, for me it was obvious, and I resigned right away. The Ukraine war then become an additional argument maybe making it easier for him. Everything became much more brutal than before.

Will you be on the streets this afternoon?

Every evening we are on the streets protesting peacefully. We are trying to be as vocal as possible so our European and American friends can hear the voice of the people.

It is a civic movement, and that’s why it will sustain. Georgians don’t care that much who sits in parliament. They don’t have much respect for their political parties. What they really care about is when someone questions their country’s European future. So, that’s why I prefer to be with the citizens rather than addressing them. This is the strength of this movement.

What if they do not succeed?

If Georgia is not European, there will be huge emigration, all pro-western, pro-European people will leave the country. Civil society will be eradicated. There will be no free journalism. These people will go elsewhere. And Georgia will miss this chance to develop with Europe.

In the South Caucasus context, we will meet huge competition against Armenia and Azerbaijan. Georgia, with a weak and corrupted government, will have difficulties. Year after year, Russia will take over the country, without paying any price.

Back to that difficult day, you say you had a responsibility, but how do you feel towards the injured?

Of course, these are sad stories, very sad. And, of course, the regret is huge. It was a very difficult choice, to fulfil my responsibility.

Now, I am fulfilling that responsibility by staying in politics. I am staying here and fighting shoulder to shoulder with the same people, with the same people and same generation who were standing at that time on Rustaveli Avenue. This is how I am paying my duty back to these people, to this society, to this country. And I am not disappearing, not avoiding these difficult questions. This is my responsibility, to continuing fighting against Russia and for democracy and for our European future.